Komatsu-Stihl

No ad's or money talk, just fun!

Komatsu-Stihl

Postby Bernhard » Dec 16th, '07, 14:30

Hi! Hopefully my first post is intresting.

As I see, there are a lot Germans around here.
They probably know about the chinese saws, sold in Germany.

Today I have found some clones, made in PRC. They looked like Stihl, from the colour, but some of them have Komatsu Design.

The Komatsu/Stihl clones have been sold at german ebay for around 200€, if I remember it right.

Now I have found the manufacturer?

http://www.xinrui-tools.com/products.as ... &classid=4
Bernhard
Junior Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Dec 2nd, '07, 15:09
Location: Germany

Postby Magnus » Dec 16th, '07, 14:58

Welcome Bernard!

Komatsu Zenoah is owned by Electrolux.

This company is not owned by elux as far as I can tell, but they proberbly has a finger in it!

http://www.xinrui-tools.com/aboutus.asp?ver=en

They are copying all brands more or less and have all colur combinations you can think of.
Post your saws in the models library. More saws makes better library!
If you need help to post please ask, I will happily help.
User avatar
Magnus
Administrator
 
Posts: 23041
Joined: Nov 21st, '05, 10:35
Location: South East Sweden
Country: Sweden

Postby Bernhard » Dec 16th, '07, 15:30

Hi Magnus,

Yes I have heard, that Elux has bought Zenoah.

As far, as I know there are not a lot of manufacturers of saw in PRC. The mostly copied brands are Stihl and Zenoah.

And you are right: You can choose everycolour and put Your own lable on every machine, but every manufacturer/distributor is doing so in PRC.

The chicom companies should be in a hurry for developing their own stuff, confirmed to the EPA rules. From 1st of January 2008 only Saws which fit the EPA Emmission rules must be offered in Germany.

Article in a German Agmagazin said, that there will come a high amount of saws from PRC, built in 2007 will overflow the market, cause of the chinese Saws didn´t fit EPA.

The prices for them here, have fallen extremly. An Importer earns only 12€ per piece now, where he earned around 80 on 2006.

An Exporter from China told me, that he has lost the sale for 3000 pieces in Germany.

From view of thing, I would state that the market has been regulated by itsself. A fortake for the established brands. But otherwise, better look what future will bring.
Bernhard
Junior Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Dec 2nd, '07, 15:09
Location: Germany

Postby Japanischer Säger » Dec 16th, '07, 15:36

Hello Bernhard, welcome to CSCF!!

I may grab one of the "Stihl 038AV" clones just for the fun of it - here in Japan they sell them as "MS380" :lol:

Those makers will persist! I don't think they lack technology, but at the moment there is no niche for them but "cheap", and that means low tech.

Have fun!
Stefan
There are trees in Japan!
User avatar
Japanischer Säger
Collector Forum's Finest
 
Posts: 4725
Joined: May 17th, '06, 13:38
Location: Shimoda
Country: Japan

Postby Bernhard » Dec 16th, '07, 18:51

Hi Stefan,

more or less we knew each other from the german "Motorsägenportal".

Indeed, I´m not that often there in the last time. A login, yes, but not a lot of postings. I think it will be overtaken by kiddies more and more, Quality of it is not, what it should be...only my opinion.

I´m not really sure about quality of the chinese stuff, even as I have some chinese saws (watch my postings at Martins side).

But there a no small motorized Equipment in China which is selfdeveloped.

After the test of a chaoyue I have a Komatsu clone in polish forest running, let´s wait and see! :lol:

Infact: I have got a chicom BC for free and it served me very well in the last 3 months, by supporting my Sthil BC´s. Result should come in spring, when the mowing season will start again.

I´m not really sure about this one:
http://surpasstools.manufacturer.global ... ainsaw.htm

http://surpasstools.manufacturer.global ... /ALL/2.htm

I have received the globalsources catalogue

www.globalsources.com

and some manufacturers state, that they fit EPA. Who believes that?
Bernhard
Junior Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Dec 2nd, '07, 15:09
Location: Germany

Postby Magnus » Dec 16th, '07, 19:22

These are clones and I have not tested many of them, but those I have has appeared good when new.

No doubt I will see much more of these later when they have seen a bit of use...
Post your saws in the models library. More saws makes better library!
If you need help to post please ask, I will happily help.
User avatar
Magnus
Administrator
 
Posts: 23041
Joined: Nov 21st, '05, 10:35
Location: South East Sweden
Country: Sweden

Postby Bernhard » Dec 16th, '07, 20:34

What chinese saw can You buy in Sweden?

I think, sooner or later, they will be appear at ebay, broken and only for scrap them.

I own 2 Chaoyue CS 36 (Stihl 023 clone) and 1 CS 35 (Poulan clone).

Both CS 36 had carb problems from the beginning. One of them was in polish forest for appr, 14 days, working at a contractors biz. After this time it was destroyed totally. Ok ok, it isn´t really made for professional use.

The fronthandle of the CS 35 broke after 10 hrs of work. I will not imaging, what would have happend when it broke during a felling job.

At the Komatsu clone the drivewheel of the chainoiler was down after 8 hrs, Clutch the same, it broke in three parts. Replacement came for free from the Salescompany.
Bernhard
Junior Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Dec 2nd, '07, 15:09
Location: Germany

Postby mcbob » Dec 16th, '07, 21:49

Well fellas i suppose we all want a cheaper product and thats were the Chinese have stepped in no doubt some of their saws are rubbish but gee i know quite a few big saw names that have done the same thing, if this is so bad why haven't Stihl and Husqvarna done something about it after all their the big boys of the industry.

If the chinese saw bought offers only 8 hours work most can recover in one or two jobs what little cost these saws represent to the buyer so i suppose there throw away saws but who cares i don't.

Mc Bob.
Truely a man of many colours "Mc Bob", "Atomic Bob", Mc "Bender" Bob, Mc "Whiz" Bob, "Herr" Bob and "Whatever" Bob.

Thats why you should own a Mac first.
McBob .. 1949 and still kicking.
User avatar
mcbob
Collector Forum's Finest
 
Posts: 4643
Joined: Nov 22nd, '05, 23:09
Location: Weston NSW Australia
Country: Down under

Postby Al Smith » Dec 16th, '07, 22:42

I doubt seriously if that saw is built under any type of a licensing agreement .More or less just a clone.

During WW2 a lot of things were in fact built under license.An example that comes to mind is the Rolls-Royce Merlin aircraft engine used in the P 51 Mustang .These aircraft were orginally fitted with an Allison engine but the Rolls generated more power at altitude than the Allison did on the ground.Because of the numbers needed and the industrial capacity of the US,they were then made here under a license from Rolls.
User avatar
Al Smith
Collector Forum's Finest
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Dec 3rd, '05, 18:09
Location: Ohio

Postby Mikko » Dec 17th, '07, 07:15

Bernhard wrote:The fronthandle of the CS 35 broke after 10 hrs of work. I will not imaging, what would have happend when it broke during a felling job.


Beware of these clones! This is scary stuff :shock:
Husqvarna - Collector from Southern Finland
User avatar
Mikko
Mr. Husqvarna
 
Posts: 939
Joined: Sep 13th, '06, 12:34
Location: Finland

Postby Chilly » Dec 18th, '07, 00:17

We're seeing Chinese clones everywhere now. Most are of questionable quality, but so was Hyundai when they started making cars, now they're not too bad. There are a lot of "Chonda" copies as well, mostly in the home standby generator market, and in small power equipment such as pumps. At less than half the cost of the real thing, they are attractive to some buyers.

I've seen a 6.5 hp "Chonda" engine, marketed under the Champion brand name, selling at Costco for $139.00 Cdn. How in the name of Mao can they build it, ship it around the world, sell it to Costco, who in turn sells it and makes more money again, for that price??

From what I've seen, the quality of the "big dogs" such as Husqvarna and Stihl has slipped a bit, and the Chinese/Korean quality is improving.

It's tied directly to profit margins, material and labour costs, and a global economy. With low-cost competition in the casual/consumer market which is one of the largest groups, the Chinese can build a saw which will cut down a few bushes or small trees every year, and when it breaks they will cheerfully sell you another one, all at a fraction of the cost of a new Husqvarna. In the mean time, the "old" saw goes to the landfill, because in all honesty, it's not worth fixing. Is this a problem? You bet your a-- it is !!

Some of the new Huskies are built in China, or a good amount of their parts are, such as the 136, 137, etc. Are they a good saw? For their intended use, maybe..

I won't buy one, but I'm not the intended marketing target, either. They won't stand up to the use I give them. I'd rather buy an older saw in decent shape, put some work into it, and know what I have. I dislike throwing things away that can be saved, but you need something of decent quality to begin with.

My rant for the day... :?

Chilly
From the Land of Ice, Snow, and the Occasional Beaver
User avatar
Chilly
Collector Forum's Finest
 
Posts: 890
Joined: Feb 14th, '07, 22:55
Location: Canada

Postby mcbob » Dec 18th, '07, 00:47

The Chinese ain't the only ones cloning chainsaws it's been happening for ages.

I suppose they had to get the Stihl's good enough to warrant cloning !! :lol:

http://macbobaust.com/looka.html

Mc Bob.
Truely a man of many colours "Mc Bob", "Atomic Bob", Mc "Bender" Bob, Mc "Whiz" Bob, "Herr" Bob and "Whatever" Bob.

Thats why you should own a Mac first.
McBob .. 1949 and still kicking.
User avatar
mcbob
Collector Forum's Finest
 
Posts: 4643
Joined: Nov 22nd, '05, 23:09
Location: Weston NSW Australia
Country: Down under

Postby Mikko » Dec 18th, '07, 06:30

Chilly, I think 136 and 137 are built in US....
Husqvarna - Collector from Southern Finland
User avatar
Mikko
Mr. Husqvarna
 
Posts: 939
Joined: Sep 13th, '06, 12:34
Location: Finland

Postby mcbob » Dec 18th, '07, 06:37

1941 Reed Prentice / Stihl BDK clone

Even as far back as 1941.

McBob.
Truely a man of many colours "Mc Bob", "Atomic Bob", Mc "Bender" Bob, Mc "Whiz" Bob, "Herr" Bob and "Whatever" Bob.

Thats why you should own a Mac first.
McBob .. 1949 and still kicking.
User avatar
mcbob
Collector Forum's Finest
 
Posts: 4643
Joined: Nov 22nd, '05, 23:09
Location: Weston NSW Australia
Country: Down under

Postby Bernhard » Dec 18th, '07, 08:08

As far as I know, Talon has overtaken MCCulloch/USA. The european operation is part of Elux, now.
Bernhard
Junior Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Dec 2nd, '07, 15:09
Location: Germany

Next

Return to Chainsaw Collectors Forum.



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jocke91, sloanjeff, Yahoo [Bot] and 16 guests