Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

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Old Mac Guy
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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by Old Mac Guy » May 23rd, '17, 11:16

A visual scan through the SN's in the Wilson's saw shop list for XL-2's with 8-digit SN's beginning with '4" shows many such SN's, which have the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th digit forming a number below 365. That fits with the 'year', 'day of the year' formula mentioned in the Service Bulletin from 1985. For example:
11/14/75 43023773 XL-2
12/13/75 43106909 XL-2 (almost 7000 units produced in one day?!)
12/16/75 43022248 XL-2
12/20/75 43022221 XL-2
12/22/75 43022253 XL-2

However... on page 13 of the list, I found the following:

11/04/75 45417455 SXL-2
11/25/75 45417172 SXL-2
12/01/75 44500247 XL-12
12/05/75 44504461 XL-12
12/09/75 44500216 XL-12
12/22/75 44500213 XL-12
01/16/76 44500221 XL-12
02/12/76 44500228 XL-12
02/27/76 45015528 XL-2

and there are other 8-digit SN's in following pages representing sales made by the Wilsons in 1976, 1977, and later, which has as the 2nd, 3rd and 4th digit a number above 365... so they cannot be de-coded according to the 1985 Service Bulletin. What do those SN's mean?? I don't know... maybe a different Homelite plant or assembly line was using some other method for issuing serial numbers...?? One thing I do notice is that these 'odd' SN's are all for XL-2's, SXL-2's and XL-12's. I wonder where Homelite was making those models in 1974, 1975...??

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by Pudding4brains » May 23rd, '17, 13:46

That sort of messes up the nice clean world presented by the service bulletin :whistle:

The current owner of the saw has granted me permission to post his images here (thanks for that!), so I have uploaded some in the image library (in this post). Here is the serial number:

Image
Photo (c) current saw owner (dd.2017-05-22)

You can see what I'm on about with the number being on a "sticky label", but if saws sold in the US by the Wilsons have numbers in the same range ... *bang* goes my theory of some import representative in Europe adding their own labels :nono:

Concerning the numbers dug up from the Wilson's list (thanks for that OMG!):
11/14/75 43023773 XL-2
12/13/75 43106909 XL-2 (almost 7000 units produced in one day?!)
12/16/75 43022248 XL-2
12/20/75 43022221 XL-2
12/22/75 43022253 XL-2
I would suggest forgetting about those using the TSB-system (7000 a day and other similar numbers with days above 365).

Well, eehhhrrmmm :cry: according to Mike's site the saw was produced from 1977-1982, but that can't be right either if the Wilsons were selling them in 1975.
I wonder where Homelite was making those models in 1974, 1975...??
From the images I can just about discern that the tag says Textron Portchester N.Y. USA, But assuming some sort of sequentiality the two saws now in our models library would interpolate to somewhere around 1976 probably:
44719883 XL-2 "For sale" (here)
44702266 XL-2 Thorbe (here)

So indeed all those seem to be in a numbering range/system of their own.... all starting with 4 I assume (43xxx - 45xxxx) ?

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by Old Mac Guy » May 24th, '17, 03:04

At this point, all I can say is:
There are some 8-digit Homelite serial numbers which we cannot decode. They do not fit into the formula set forth in Technical Service Bulletin No. 185-008, issued in 1985. Also, there are at least two versions of Homelite serial numbers issued from the plant in Toronto. They contain the letter "T" either at the beginning of the SN or in the middle. Most of these are understandable in terms of where the saw was made, what year the saw was made and the sequential number of that model of saw made in that plant in that year. But we cannot tell from those SN's what day the saw was made.

8-digit HL SN's beginning in '44' or '45' are to me an enigma. Until we can uncover more information from Homelite TSB's issued between 1970 and 1985, which might explain the logic behind them, we'll just have to place those saws with those SN's into a separate category marked "UDSN" for "UnDecipherable Serial Numbers"... not to be confused with the commonly used acronym "UDSN", meaning "Underwater Deaf Swedish Nimrods", which, of course, everybody everywhere knows and understands and uses commonly in everyday speech.

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by undee70ss » May 24th, '17, 08:06

Old Mac Guy wrote:At this point, all I can say is:
There are some 8-digit Homelite serial numbers which we cannot decode.

8-digit HL SN's beginning in '44' or '45' are to me an enigma. Until we can uncover more information from Homelite TSB's issued between 1970 and 1985, which might explain the logic behind them, we'll just have to place those saws with those SN's into a separate category marked "UDSN" for "UnDecipherable Serial Numbers"
From 1974-through late 1977, Homelite stopped using serial numbers, but not on all models. Some, like the XL2 XL12 ect, just had numbers beginning with a 44 or 45 ect.... Some saws just had a lot number and a UT number (no true serial number), you can date these saws, sometimes, sometimes not. It's the ones with the stickers is the ones that can't be dated using the 1985 TSB on serial numbers. One can get a close idea using Joyces sales records.
1029CS serial numbers.jpg
I have uploaded many IPL's, manuals, and old literature in PDF's to Magnus's server, on Homelites, Clinton's, Remington's McCulloch's, Poulans, Karts ect... You can find it all right here! http://files.chainsawcollectors.se/down ... undee70ss/

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by undee70ss » May 24th, '17, 08:17

Pudding4brains wrote:Well, eehhhrrmmm :cry: according to Mike's site the saw was produced from 1977-1982, but that can't be right either if the Wilsons were selling them in 1975.
Mike's site has a lot of valuable info, but like everything else in this world, not everything is 100% correct. XL2's were in production in 1972 I believe, as there is a memo about them in 1972.
I have uploaded many IPL's, manuals, and old literature in PDF's to Magnus's server, on Homelites, Clinton's, Remington's McCulloch's, Poulans, Karts ect... You can find it all right here! http://files.chainsawcollectors.se/down ... undee70ss/

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by undee70ss » May 24th, '17, 08:28

Pudding4brains wrote: Speaking of which ... did you folk ever manage to get a pdf online somewhere?
I did upload it to Magnus's server, but for some reason it's not working AGAIN, so I could make a link, so anyone wanting a copy can get it here for now.

http://files.chainsawcollectors.se/down ... s_rev1.pdf
Last edited by undee70ss on May 26th, '17, 09:22, edited 1 time in total.
I have uploaded many IPL's, manuals, and old literature in PDF's to Magnus's server, on Homelites, Clinton's, Remington's McCulloch's, Poulans, Karts ect... You can find it all right here! http://files.chainsawcollectors.se/down ... undee70ss/

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by undee70ss » May 24th, '17, 08:42

Also when dating saws, one can used last year built memos. With a UT number or model, one can determine the last yr a particular model was produced.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ri39rwyijhz5p ... v.pdf?dl=0
I have uploaded many IPL's, manuals, and old literature in PDF's to Magnus's server, on Homelites, Clinton's, Remington's McCulloch's, Poulans, Karts ect... You can find it all right here! http://files.chainsawcollectors.se/down ... undee70ss/

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by Pudding4brains » May 25th, '17, 11:15

Gotta just LOVE this forum :lol:

Thanks undee70ss !! :thumbs:

Have been toying with the Wilsons's list for a bit and quickly getting to the point where I would actually want to OCR the darn thing and toss it in a spreadsheet.

Or has that been done already? Image quality is mediocre so it will require some cleaning up and probably manual checking/correcting of OCR results. Would be a waste of time if someone has already done this ...

Anyone?

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by undee70ss » May 25th, '17, 11:34

Pudding4brains wrote:Gotta just LOVE this forum :lol:

Thanks undee70ss !! :thumbs:

Have been toying with the Wilsons's list for a bit and quickly getting to the point where I would actually want to OCR the darn thing and toss it in a spreadsheet.

Or has that been done already? Image quality is mediocre so it will require some cleaning up and probably manual checking/correcting of OCR results. Would be a waste of time if someone has already done this ...

Anyone?
No, it has not been done by anyone that I know of. I can scan them again, but some of the pages, the print quality was not clear, so higher settings probably won't help.
I have uploaded many IPL's, manuals, and old literature in PDF's to Magnus's server, on Homelites, Clinton's, Remington's McCulloch's, Poulans, Karts ect... You can find it all right here! http://files.chainsawcollectors.se/down ... undee70ss/

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by Pudding4brains » May 25th, '17, 12:55

I've extracted the JPEG originals from the PDF (also for the UT-number thingy, which would be nice to search/sort too) and will see how I fare with cleaning things up. The JPEG compression is causing a lot or artefacts around the print, but I might be able to automagically filter that out. If it turns out too much hassle I might come back on your offer to scan again - if you scan to PNG or TIFF or some such, the results should be better, but let's see what some automated filtering can do first :)

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by Old Mac Guy » May 25th, '17, 15:01

PFB - Are you making any progress with the Information Work Group?
It's been a year now since that project was set up:
viewtopic.php?f=348&t=26801

undee70ss - I'm glad to see someone had the time to scan the whole Wilson's Saw Shop sales record into pdf. Now that it's posted up and available to all people with an interest in deciphering Homelite serial numbers, we can discuss the contents of various ones of the 49 pages and everyone can see exactly what we are talking about.

One note: The pdf pagination is from 1-49. The original is paginated 1-25, with no page numbers on the back side pages. So, in referring to the list, we'll need to figure out how to refer to specific pages of the list.

There are many interesting questions and answers raised by the data on the list. Just one is how long it took at various times from the day a saw was made to the day it was sold. Many sales in the last 2/3 of the list provide straightforward info... place made, date made, unit number that day. There are other items on the list which raise new questions...

Onward through the frogs...
Costa Rican glass frog.jpg
Costa Rican glass frog.jpg (11.16 KiB) Viewed 371 times

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by undee70ss » May 26th, '17, 07:55

Old Mac Guy wrote:PFB - Are you making any progress with the Information Work Group?
It's been a year now since that project was set up:
viewtopic.php?f=348&t=26801

undee70ss - I'm glad to see someone had the time to scan the whole Wilson's Saw Shop sales record into pdf. Now that it's posted up and available to all people with an interest in deciphering Homelite serial numbers, we can discuss the contents of various ones of the 49 pages and everyone can see exactly what we are talking about.

One note: The pdf pagination is from 1-49. The original is paginated 1-25, with no page numbers on the back side pages. So, in referring to the list, we'll need to figure out how to refer to specific pages of the list.
We can just use the PDF pagination, or I can edit the file and add page numbers to all of the pages.

How clear is your page (saws from 2/21/76 - 9/27/76) ? Mine, one column is a little blurry.
I have uploaded many IPL's, manuals, and old literature in PDF's to Magnus's server, on Homelites, Clinton's, Remington's McCulloch's, Poulans, Karts ect... You can find it all right here! http://files.chainsawcollectors.se/down ... undee70ss/

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by undee70ss » May 26th, '17, 07:56

Old Mac Guy wrote:PFB - Are you making any progress with the Information Work Group?
It's been a year now since that project was set up:
viewtopic.php?f=348&t=26801
What is this?
I have uploaded many IPL's, manuals, and old literature in PDF's to Magnus's server, on Homelites, Clinton's, Remington's McCulloch's, Poulans, Karts ect... You can find it all right here! http://files.chainsawcollectors.se/down ... undee70ss/

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by Magnus » May 26th, '17, 10:18

Its a information workgroup we started to help compile lists and documents were info is easier found.
Post your saws in the models library. More saws makes better library!
If you need help to post please ask, I will happily help.

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Re: Figuring Out Homelite Serial Numbers

Post by Old Mac Guy » May 26th, '17, 13:12

Undees, here's the background on the Information Work Group:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=26786
Please note my commentary at top of page 2. :whistle:

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